All right... which one is it?

[J***@adobeforums.com]

I have read numerous articles (and yes, even the infamous Creativecow article) on what resolution and what type of pixels NTSC footage should be when imported, comp'd, and exported to and from countless applications. In one, it's 720x540, square pixels. In another it's 720x486, rectangular pixels. In another, it's 720x480. In one place I have read all footage for use between After Effects and Final Cut Pro (for example), should be NTSC 720x486, but Final Cut Pro seems to want 720x480... I am just completely lost!

Can anyone explain, in English please, what the best resolution (for NTSC video) is when exporting from ANY video application (Avid, Premiere Pro, Final Cut Pro) to After Effects; what the import settings/comp settings should be in After Effects; and what the final export BACK out to an NLE (Avid, Premiere Pro, Final Cut Pro) should be?

Thanks,

jdb

[R***@adobeforums.com]

NTSC comes in 4 flavors. According to the standards set a few years ago all NTSC signals are sampled 720 times for each scan line. A full frame has 486 scan lines. There are two flavors of video; widescreen (or 16:9) and standard (or 4:3). After these standards were set DV came along and there was a problem with the compression scheme and the number of scan lines. The only way the scheme would work was to change the number of scan lines to 480. Both are legal for broadcast. Both fill the entire screen of a NTSC monitor or TV set.

To summarize, NTSC video standards are:

DV formats:

720 X 480 4:3 (NTSC D1/DV pixels)
720 X 480 16:9 (NTSC DV/Widescreen pixels)

Full Frame format, what you’d get if you captured with SDI or Analogue equipment:

720 X 486 4:3 (NTSC D1/DV pixels)
720 X 486 16:9 (NTSC DV/Widescreen pixels)


The only problem you have in mixing formats is that if you do not move one of the source files up or down 1 scan line (one pixel) then the field order of the footage is reversed. IOW, Place a DV clip (720 X 480) in a D1 (720 X 486) project in either FCP, Premiere, After Effects or any other app and you must move the DV clip up 1 pixel to keep the same field order. If you work the other way around and place a D1(720 X 486) clip in a DV (720 X 480) project, you must move the D1 clip down 1 pixel.

I hope this answers your questions.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

Can I not just go by the philosophy that every f&#^king (that's freaking) thing I create should be 720x486 and be done with it?

[D***@adobeforums.com]

sure. But what you see on your monitor won't be the exact thing you see on your tv...

Here's your 3 different flavas you mentioned:
720x486 (That's D1 rectangle pixels - that's what you should render to.)
720x480 (that's DV - You should only be using that if you are working with DV footage)

720x540 - if you're creating something on the computer, or using a photograph - these are square pixels

In summation, there's better explanations between square and rectangle pixels, but a circle with square pixels (on a computer monitor) won't appear to be a perfect circle shown on TV.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

The best explanation I have heard so far is: design your graphics in 720x540 square. Design your After Effects (with said graphics) in a 720x540 square comp, as well. Then create a new comp at 720x486 rectangle, and MOVE the square comp into that comp, which will stretch it as it should be (it may not look right, but it will be correct for NTSC DV).

Now, I can't claim I understand why there's a big difference between 720x480 and 720x486, but if I could just pick ONE of these two and work towards that, that's what I am asking.

Final Cut Pro (and all the tutorials I read on it) seems to want 720x480 (unless I can change the import settings?), and everyone else is saying 720x486.

It's just absurd... I guess some programs automatically convert it to what it needs to be, and some don't, and some expect it to be in a format, and others don't care: they leave it like you have it. It's enough to drive an insane person normal!!! ;0)

[R***@adobeforums.com]

If final cut wants 720 X 480 then you're set up for DV. Create or at least render all of your AE projects at 720 X 480.

[C***@adobeforums.com]

Joel,

Rick's excellent explanation is expanded upon greatly in his own article, Dr. Strangepixel, over on the Cow. Highly recommended reading.

BTW, I didn't see anywhere in this thread that Photoshop square pixel files for use in DV should be 720 x 534, which takes into account the 6 less lines.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

Great! Thanks, Chris! For adding yet ANOTHER variable to the mix: 720x534! You're just doing this to drive me crazy, arent you? ;0)

[J***@adobeforums.com]

Okay, so here's what I am seeing so far:

In Photoshop: use 720x540 -> 720x486 NTSC.
In Photoshop: use 720x536 -> 720x480 NTSC.

Is this a correct interpretation?

Baby steps. Baby steps...

[C***@adobeforums.com]

Typo, 720x534. Yes, this is what you use, and BTW, that article will clear up everything. It's really great.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

No, Rick. Do not throw anything else into this mix! ;0)

Here's another wrench to throw into things. Premiere Pro has settings (for video projects) for 720x480. No 720x486. So, if I use square pixels in Photoshop at 720x540, there's no way to effectively bring them into Premiere Pro without distorting them? Or do I design at 720x534 in Photoshop to bring into Premiere Pro at 720x480? Am I missing something? I need a drink. No, two. Better make it five!

I read the article Dr. Strangepixel. In some ways, it just makes things even more confusing for me! I just need to create a good, solid, effective workflow right now, and maybe I will understand it the more I do it?!???!?!?

[R***@adobeforums.com]

The 720 wide Square pixel images must be scaled down to 90% if they are to fill a 720 pixel wide D1 comp. If you don't scale them down they will be 111% bigger than the frame.

If you plan on using your Photoshop images at 100% scale then they should be 648 pixels wide.

[b***@adobeforums.com]

NOW you realize why we defaulted to the 320 x 240 composition for so long!

;)

[L***@adobeforums.com]

Now I'm confused too. I've always impoted my DV footage in 720x486 comp without moving my footage one pixel up and never experienced problems.

But lets say that I put the DV footage in a 720x486 comp and that I resize it and move it in a corner, how do I know if the field will match ? Or even worst,in 3D space?

[s***@adobeforums.com]

I always separate render masters from composition masters.

My render masters are either 720x486 non-square (for D1 output--eg, betacam, digibeta, delivery to a D1 capable nonlinear system/deck configuration) or 720x480 non-square (for DV output).

My composition masters for NON-video sources--meaning graphics and text--are always at 720x540 square. I never bother to use the 720x534 as it seems somewhat irrelvant if I drop a 720x540 comp into a 720x480 comp for rendering and lose four lines from cropping in the 720x480 comp. Maybe this is heresy but, as Elmer Fudd would say, "Oh Wew". And no one--broadcasters or client--have complained yet.

My composition masters for VIDEO sources are almost always defined by the source material. If I'm working with D1 sources that means 720x486 non-square, and if working with DV that means 720x480 non-square. However, if I will be outputting D1 sources to DV, I drop my 720x486 comps into a 720x480 render comp, again sacrificing the four lines. Essentially I work as if preparing for D1 output but do my final render at DV settings.

To make this a little more concrete...

Let's say I am working with three DV clips. I would create a 720x480 non-square comp and work on those elements in that comp. As I create title and graphic elements, I work in a 720x540 square comp and either pre-render those sources for dropping into the 720x480 comp, or I drop the 720x540 PRE-comp into my 720x480 comp. Whether render or precomp source, as Rick mentions, a 720x540 square comp must be scaled to 90% when dropped into a 720x480 or 720x486 comp.

FYI, when using final cut I pretty much follow the same methodology. FCP, like AE, is also resolution independent--meaning one can freely mix resolutions. Therefore, if my required delivery is for D1 I work at 720x486, if for DV I work at 720x480.

Lastly, with no intent to cause hives for anyone, remember field and frame-based delivery requirements are also part of these equations.

[L***@adobeforums.com]

Thats exacly how I work too, but Rick Gerard's comment just confused me. I never done those pixel shift thing before.

ex: When I drop a D1 comp into a DV comp or DV in D1, I just render it that way, I dont move the clip.

[A***@adobeforums.com]

You should all just move to Australia and use PAL. :-)

[R***@adobeforums.com]

On the shifting dv clips in d1 comps... you will get field reversal unless you separate fields or deinterlace your clips. You have to..If you are not seeing any problems then either you're separating fields or you're not looking closely enough.

On bringing a 720 X 540 image into Premiere... If the image is interpreted as square pixels and the project is 720 x 486 then it wont distort at all with Premiere automatically fits the image into the timeline. Check the scale values (Premiere Pro only) and youll see that the footage has been scaled to 90%. If you bring a 720 X 540 image into a 720 X 480 DV project you will distort the image is you let Premiere automatically fill the frame. If you create a file using Photoshop or Illustrator that is 720 X 480 pixels and let Premiere, FCP, or AE interpret the footage as rectangular pixels IT WILL BE DISTORTED. The only exception is if you have created a Photoshop file using rectangular pixels.

You can bring any image or any size into Premiere, FCP or AE, and as long as the PAR is correctly interpreted you will not distort the image unless you intentionally do so by scaling X and Y to different values. The only images that are almost always guaranteed to be improperly interpreted are images that are created at rectangular pixel sizes. IOW, if you create an image in Illustrator or Photoshop that is 720 X 480 pixels the image will automatically be interpreted as NTSC D1/DV .9 PAR. THIS IS WRONG unless you choose to create your Photoshop image with Photoshop CS using the NTSC D1/DV preset and .9 PAR pixels. Illustrator is always square pixels. Scans are always square pixels. Renders from every 3D app on the planet are square pixels unless you specifically choose otherwise. ONLY captured video is always rectangular pixels. Well, technically, nearly always. If you have an old analogue capture system like a Media 100 or a Tagra 1000 that captures at 640 X 480, then video is square pixels.

Let me make it as simple as I can. If your footage is was created with square pixels it must be interpreted as square pixels. If your footage was originally rectangular pixels, it must be interpreted as rectangular pixels. You can mix any pixel aspect ratio with any other pixel aspect ratio in any comp, and if all of the footage is properly interpreted and the footage scale factor for X and y is identical, the footage will never distort.

[L***@adobeforums.com]

Rick, what about if you resize the DV clip or if you have to move it in the 486 comp. Thats the part where I'm lost

[R***@adobeforums.com]

There's no need to resize the clip. If you do, then every single pixel in the original DV clip will soften. The confusion comes when you get into the mind set that you must fill up the frame. Click on the safe area icon. The only thing you have to fill up is the safe action area. DV footage, in fact even Digi Beta footage, usually has black bars on the left and right side of the image that are 4 to 9 pixels wide. These pixels are in the over scan area. They are never seen on a monitor. Active picture can be as small as 702 pixels wide.

When you're rendering for the web or multimedia apps it's a good idea to crop your video to remove these black areas. Most NLE's automatically crop top, bottom, left, and right edges when you create DVE or 3D transitions to hide these dark pixels.

Again, the rules are simple. Interpret footage properly. If you move it, deinterlace it (separate fields). If you scale your footage make sure that X and Y have the same value. Use the presets for standard output. Crop if your rendering for the web.